MARC WADSWORTH, chin in hand, at the press conference before the first natio DA: The fact is that the Labour Party in the inner city areas that I know has ridden on black votes. They are the only reliable set of votes coming out for the Labour Party now and I speak as one who has canvassed for myself in The traditional white working class vote has eroded and left the black vote MW: Talking about the loyalty of those votes, we just had a by-election in Vauxhall for Lambeth council and our prediction was that we were probably 70 votes ahead of a very strong Alliance Yet we won by more than 550 votes, and this was because of the People were telling me that you could tell the Alliance voters because as they lined up they were white and only a trickle and the Labour line was longer and much blacker. The candidate was black and was backed by the black secThis is an indication of times to You will see black candidates emerging from the ranks of the black sections and they will have a credible constituency. They won't depend on white patronage though that will be an They will gain their main strength from actually representing the black community and in 37 ethnic marginals around the country I think that is a very significant step forward.
It is quite legitimate to say that there La candidate to represent black people as well as representing white people. People fear being labellIt just seems hypocritical that if your strong issue is being black, and understanding the black issue, that is seen as a handicap and if you are good on the economy then you are seen as a
whole movement 1 meeting of the black section to draw pictures shade in the characters.
This tells you what their approach to race is, one of vote gathering and the formation of an ethnic minorities committee at election time made up of worthies mainly white.
I think that they fear that black sections will shine a torch on their own lack of performance on race and that is just what they don't want.
RP: I think Militant's response is symptomatic of their general lack of understanding ot institutional disadvantage within our community. They have a very suspect line on responding to women's issues and whole sections of the disadvantaged within our comThey cannot take on board the fact let you must mave dway mom colvu. blind approaches. We are not all the same. If you continue to think of the working class as being all the same and hoping that by running up a flag they will all come running behind you they are sadly mistaken.
I am very disappointed that some comrades who are black go along with the Militant line because it seems to me that in so doing they are falling into this ¡TaD OI thinking that we are all same. We are not all the same. generations nobody has treated us as though we are all the same, so why the hell we should start belleving we are ali the same now is absolutely beyond me.
Of course there are communalities between the struggles for justice and the struggles for equality with the black and the white communities, but there are many ways in which they are different.
DA: On the Militant - • the Militant is a right wing group and it is not surprising that not responsive to peoples' needs. In a sense the Militant's response to black people is coming out of the same racism and the same almost colonialist attitude to black people, as And it has its roots in that very Datons ne aluluac lo which is that 'we white people can tell black people want' We don't need to be told by Kinnock or Ted Grant what strategies we should put forward.
Having said that I have always fought against the Militant and would fight again because I think they are entitled to play their part in the Labour Party. But their attitude on black white control of Militant and the very rigid doctrinal attitude that Militant often has.
One thing I would add to what Russell said is that I think that one of the things that black people are moving away from is this whole shopping list attitude to people who aren't white, male, and middle class. I for one am fed up with a shopping list of resolutions which groups together gays, black people, disabled, etc because I think when you group together it diminishes from and overlooks what is specific to ditthe ferent issues.
ГОГ I want to keep my eye on that goal and I don't want to be deflected by being told I am one of many minorities.
MW: I must say that 1 am very disappointed with the Militant because they have certainly widened the debate in the Labour Party which is long overdue.
But they seem to be hell bent on infiltrating black sections in the same way as they have with the YS and not to a good cause. Down in Vauxhall we have black in, they have taken posts and offered to do leaflets. SCONCON against black sections us. So what are they playing at?
taken seriously then this is no way lo would pass on to them support not playing it straight.
Wallt should start acting as our support.
using black people. both on the far left and in other areas of the party, our own strategies now.
How do you see the role of black secconference and that type of input to the roles for black sections. there are lots of black members of the Labour Party meetings, who feel intimidated by the bureaucracy and the fact that they are white dominated. One very simple role for black sections is to provide a forum where black people can speak out and not teel intimidated and in that way draw in black Labour Party members black people who haven't been active before.
what you really in the forming of policies relating to black people — mered out and brought back into the party as a whole there can be more black representatives expulsion of the at every level in the party. criticisms levelled against black sections is that they are segregationist, of the results i have seen sections reflects the have maximised black involvement and a black input in the party.
Would you see similar type of structural arrangements with the women's section of the party?
RP: If you are going to move up from the grassroots position that the black section is at the moment to the positions where power is actually exervised you have got to have parallel structures.
the issue within the trade union movement as well. We know we have got a battle to win within the trade union movement. which fought.
and to create equal opportunities. DA: I ought to say that personally I don't see that representatives on the NEC is our immediate priority priority is to build strong grassroots black sections because I think that only - iney Ilave come be doing this do you have a position of DOWel which to black councillors and MPs.
Then you discover what they have been up to behind the back of the black section. They have spoken at a Greater conterence one of our delegates who was there from the YS, who we had fought very hard to get on the GC. And there she was denouncing If they are to be honest and to be carry on and that is the message that I against vou because we certainlv don't the expulsion of Militant but frankly they are acting like rather malicious children at the moment and If they really if they deserve DA: Well the Militant are playing it straight in a way, but they are just like the rest of the far left. Militant are into The far left has notoriously coopted people and used black people and tried to construct out of black people some kind of shock troops a vanguard. I for - black people are tired of being used by white people we are going to determine tions once there is a national network set up? Do you see it as similar to the women's sections - having a national DA: I think that there are three main The first is never come to RUSSELL PROFITT The second role for black section is pers - who came - where they can be hamThe third role is in organising so One of the belong to , but one workers. is that they urgency.
the It also takes us to the need to fight La clear link?
is perhaps the battle the Labour leadership never They never took on the trade situation of that black themselves in. fighting black formed my immediate move forward Sevarale Dosure Move to nave But certainly we want more people at every level in the power structure of the party and the unions because what you have got at the moment is a whole leadership the Scargills, Bickerstaffes, Ken Gills, and Alan Sap.
out of the trade union movement a decade ago. Since then the growth in the trade unions has been among women and black people. The present trade union leadership does not reflect that at all.
MW: A very interesting statistic shows that black workers are more likely to union than wate And yet if you look at trade union officers you hardly see a black face among them. If you take that to full time official level you can count on a couple of hands. That is something that the trade union movement should be addressing itself to as a matter of I was just going to ask if there is any link up between the people involved in sections the unions.
There is some black self help in some unions particularly in NALGO in London and there is the BTUSM - is there MW: There is a very definite link. Our We see it as a huge priority, not just given the amount of votes that they wield at conference, but because of the near disenfranchisement unionists find A separate organisation has been because certain black unionists have felt that things won't unless there is that of a black unionists solidarity group working to agitate for the sort of things that we have been calling for here. How long do you think it will be befor black sections are formally agreed?
RP: The campaign is to have them established as quickly as possible. It is only within the last year that the issue has taken off and there has been a phenomenal growth We never ticipated that we would be at the stags we are at now in terms of having so many black sections forming not just in London but outside London as well.
But we are not a movement that has the financial wherewithal to support the growth that has taken place. We would welcome any contributions that anyone cares to make to the movement.
happening, I don't think that we would want to start saying that it is going to be with iwo to wice vcars. i iccorills that it will take time All I can say is that the challenge is very squarely in the lap of the movement and the longer they pussyfoot on this issue the more difficult it will be for the movement to speak with any degree of credibility within the eyes of the black community.
MW: The pace of delivery is very much up to people out of our immediate ne like the leadership of the party who ig nore our demands at their peril.
If you look at the Greater London Labour Party annual conference the most passionale debate : was on black sections and I think that is an indicator of what is likely to happen at conference.
DA: It took the people campaigning for constitutional reforms seven or eight years from start to finish.
I would see black sections coming in less than that time not least because the doesn't have that long. doesn't meet the demands of black peo. ple it is going to have serious problems when it comes to a general election.
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Socialist Action : 21 September 1984 Photo: ANDREAS NICOL A